• Comment

From the Left Hand Corner: Responses

Posted: February 19, 2013 - 5:31pm

First I’d like to respond to last week’s column of my Abler conservative cohort on the subject of meetings. On it, we can agree. Like Pete, I’ve attended an awful lot of meetings over a lifetime, and a lot of them have been boring and unproductive.

I think I started as a 4-H member at age 7, and ever since have attended, and in many cases chaired, political and governmental meetings, neighborhood meetings, church meetings, civic meetings, professional meetings, work meetings and more that I’ve missed or conveniently forgotten.

As with Pete, the somewhat captive and repetitive work meetings leave the most negative memories.

However, it is great to be in a society that freely overwhelms us with a vast choice of meetings to schedule, attend and participate in without stealth and fear.

Good meetings are more than a sharing of information. A major purpose is for exchange of ideas and learning additional facts in formulating decisions. A collection of ideas and opinions is, in almost all cases, better than any single one.

One who chairs meetings should always keep in mind that the meeting belongs to the participants, not the chair or officers. That is why there is a meeting, in order to gain collective consideration and action. I think Pete confirms the adage that, meeting decisions belong to those who show up. If you can’t get off the bar stool or out of the easy chair to attend, don’t complain about the results of meetings you could have attended in your area, any more than you should complain about election results if you didn’t take the time and effort to vote.

I also share Pete’s chagrin that some elections are subject to decision based on votes of “low information voters.” Although probably true, it is still disconcerting.

One can question whether low information voting is better than not voting at all, but to the extent it exists it is subject to exploiting. At the local level at least, meeting attendance and participation will alleviate its existence.

In other response, I’m usually spared the negative comments on columns since I don’t know how to blog, or tweet or twitter, but I do read the paper.

Four weeks ago I read an article in the Minneapolis Tribune that seemed bothersome and caused me to write about guns. I acknowledged that I wasn’t arguing or adding much to the merits of the issue(s) but was concerned about how we as a society are dealing with the serious questions at hand.

I concluded that, as a lifelong “gunner,” I personally can get along fine without a fully automatic high capacity assault rifle. I don’t have an exact limiting shell number in mind, but find the high capacity magazine the most worrisome aspect. I don’t know what was banned in the 1930s and don’t know exactly what was banned following the Reagan years, nor what was unbanned in the 1990s. I stated “fully automatic” to distinguish from the “semi-automatics” we use in deer and duck hunting, a distinction some “anti-gunners” fail to make in their blanketing prohibiting arguments.

The stuff on NRA rating was taken right out of the Minneapolis newspaper article, most of it verbatim. It was reported that the NRA ranked our 10 federal elected officials, every one of them, either A or F. They gave no explanation or qualifying comments. They gave no grade to any of the 10 Senators and Congresspeople of anything between A and F. I don’t know what rating process NRA has, uses, nor how they work, whatever they use. I commented on what they did.

How does that convert to the Week One criticism of Mr. Bertram (at least he was quite civil) and his assumption about “the weapon he describes?" I didn’t describe any particular or specific “weapon”, at least none that I know of. I simply stated disinterest in having anything fully automatic, anything high capacity, anything that was seemingly more designed for hurting people than sporting usage.

I don’t know what a Huldra AR 15 is or where that fits in. It is appalling to even think, as Mr. Bertram suggests, that the shotgun that I use “will kill more students in a classroom” than some gun I’m supposedly “demonizing”. No, it won’t!

As noted above, the only reason I used the term "fully automatic" was to avoid lumping shotguns and deer rifles in with broadbrush prohibiting statements that I’ve heard some anti-gun people make.

Week Two was more derogatory. Mr. Buell accuses me of “an outright ... and deliberate lie” in saying I can get along without a fully automatic high-capacity assault rifle. That is my belief and preference. I made it clear earlier in the column that I want to keep the dozen or so guns and rifles that I now have.

I find it a bit ironic that for quite a number of years, gun ownership and usage was at issue, and quite hotly contested, without the Second Amendment even referenced in argument on the subject. Mr. Buell apparently has a great deal more factual knowledge and insight than the rest of us about express statements of the founders writing amendments and quotes of Washington, Mason and Jefferson. If so, verify and enlighten us.

We can have differing opinion, and different interpretation, but accusation of “outright ... and deliberate lie” when I was only expressing my personal reflection is rather hurtful.

Then Week Three, Mr. Lund attacks for denigrating the NRA “elected official system”. I didn’t know they had one, nor if they followed it, if one existed. What I do know is what I read in the Minneapolis Tribune, and I believe that I referenced from it accurately, and in most aspects verbatim. (I didn’t keep a copy to check again.)

I wasn’t denigrating any unknown to me system as such. I was criticizing the NRA for what they did. All 10 of our federal elected officials were ranked either A or F, nothing in between, no one B, no one C, no one D, and no pluses or minuses as now referenced by Mr. Lund as possible.

That is what they did. That exemplifies the extreme approach of NRA, in this particular instance, which I view as part of pattern to hold to extremes which I believe impedes constructive resolution of the problems we face.

I don’t expect any others’ agreement, but I don’t think my observation, reference to the Trib article and criticism of the NRA justify Mr. Lund’s accusation of “lie” a half dozen times.

The complex issue cries out for a more reasonable approach.

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Sleepr2
326
Points
Sleepr2 02/23/13 - 09:29 am
2
1

Maybe Don Bye and Jackpine

should post their current and past employeers so we can all be as childish as Jackpine and his boycott nonsense?

jaysoffroad
401
Points
jaysoffroad 02/23/13 - 09:56 am
2
1

"Maybe Don Bye and

"Maybe Don Bye and Jackpine
should post their current and past employeers "

Government
Welfare
Unemployment
And maybe a few Grants

tjohnson
252
Points
tjohnson 02/23/13 - 10:11 am
2
1

Jackpine is a pretender.

Jackpine pretends to have some type of software/tech business. But anyone who lies as much as Jackpine and does not have the capacity to read, cannot be very successful. I would suggest that everyone boycott Jackpine's business, but I am sure we already are. LMAO.

An yes Jackpine, Don Bye did lie. Nutty even pointed it out in one of his posts. But since you cannot read, it is unlikely that you caught it.

Sleepr2
326
Points
Sleepr2 02/23/13 - 11:30 am
4
0

The only xtremists here are moveon paid shills

Are greedy liberals trying to justify their theft from the real working people.

BTW Still waiting for you employers name and as far as being a one issue voter , go ahead and kill your kids , just don't expect me to finace it.

Greed: To a liberal, believing that you pay too much in taxes or even opposing paying more in taxes is greedy. In actuality, wanting to loot as much money as possible that someone else has earned to use for your own purposes, which is what liberals do, is a much better example of greed

“At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child – miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied, demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless. Liberalism is a philosphy of sniveling brats.” — P.J. O’Rourke

jaysoffroad
401
Points
jaysoffroad 02/23/13 - 11:31 am
4
0

Why are you Liberals

Why are you Liberals "Pro-Choice" till we're born?

Pathetic Commies!

Sleepr2
326
Points
Sleepr2 02/23/13 - 11:39 am
4
0

Perhaps Jackpine

could move to Cuba or Venezuela, they seem to have governments more in line with the liberal extremists thinking.

take that liar Nutz with you.

Ds.Gusted
32
Points
Ds.Gusted 02/23/13 - 01:23 pm
4
0

Jackpine & RWN

Your outrage should be at the Lakes Country Echo for allowing Mr. Lund's letter to the Editor to be printed. Mr. Bye does not need your protection either. I do, however, believe that the two of you should be banned, and here is why.

Please read this slowly so that it sinks in.

Mr. Bye wrote an opinion piece as part of his paid or voluntary role as a guest Editor. He new the subject of his piece was a very hot topic and probably expected some blowback.

Mr. Lund has passionate beliefs that appear to be very different than Mr. Bye's and he wrote AND SIGNED a lettor to the Editor that the paper chose to include in it's latest edition.

That's part of how public debate works, wether you like it or not.

The sleazy part comes to play when people like you read something that you don't like and from your position as an anonymous commenter begin to solicit private information for the purpose of harming the contributor, his family, his reputation or livelihood. That is completely out of line.

Now read it again.

Why is it that you cannot see the difference?

tjohnson
252
Points
tjohnson 02/23/13 - 02:47 pm
4
0

Why do liberals think the 1st

Why do liberals think the 1st and 2nd amendments only apply to them?

Jackpine also thinks the last election is a trend. How quickly he forgets having his rear handed to him in the 2010 election. Obama won the election only because Romney was the candidate. Romney ran a timid campaign. Romney should have gone for the jugular. Ron Paul would have kicked Obamination.

Jackpine and Nutty are certainly two DA's.

rightwingnuts
377
Points
rightwingnuts 02/23/13 - 02:59 pm
1
4

Sleazy? Anonymous? Ds.Gusting hypocrisy

If you don't want to be such a complete hypocrite, identify who YOU are, then, Ds.Gusting!

It is also disgusting for you to try to deny our rights, just because we don't happen to be rightwing nuts, like you.

If Tom Lund happened to be an uninformed, belligerent liberal spewing over the top, unfounded rants, surely you would still defend his unhinged letters. NOT! Disgusting!

rightwingnuts
377
Points
rightwingnuts 02/23/13 - 03:12 pm
1
5

If Ds.Gusting identifies who he/she/it is...

It would be completely irrational for me to knowingly do business with someone as irrational and belligerent.

Speaking of sleazy, Ds.Gusting going to great lengths to censor and banish Jackpine and me from this site is underhanded, to say the least.

rightwingnuts
377
Points
rightwingnuts 02/23/13 - 04:39 pm
1
3

Only GOP strategy

As we saw with their "rising star" waterboy Rubio, the GOP has absoultely no new or constructive ideas. They are now the "party of stupid", greed and regression. As we are seeing, their only way to win is with sleazy tactics, like voter suppression, and corrupt corporate manipulation.

Sleepr2
326
Points
Sleepr2 02/23/13 - 04:42 pm
3
1

uninformed, belligerent liberal

It's nice that Nutz has finally admitted what a tool she is...

"If Tom Lund happened to be an uninformed, belligerent liberal spewing over the top, unfounded rants, surely",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Nutz and jackpine would be dropping to their knees in thanks that their is yet another paid shill for the libtard movement showing how intolerant, parasitcal and childlike the typical liberal is.

tjohnson
252
Points
tjohnson 02/23/13 - 05:08 pm
3
2

Jackpine is retarded.

The only national election in the United States is for the President/Vice President. The last five national elections are below.

2012 Obama
2008 Obama
2004 Bush
2000 Bush
1996 Clinton

That is one low performing brain in Jackpine's melon. It will be interesting what bs excuse he comes up with. It will have to be something similar to when he tried to explain that Senators are not Congressmen. LMAO at Jackpine's stupidity.

jaysoffroad
401
Points
jaysoffroad 02/24/13 - 09:15 am
3
1

Thats why I see all those "I

Thats why I see all those "I Voted" stickers on head stones!

Sleepr2
326
Points
Sleepr2 02/24/13 - 09:53 am
3
1

Maryland’s 3rd congressional district, (LIB)

If Nutz was any more dishonest about liberalism he could run for Frankens spot.....

Maryland’s 3rd congressional district,

the most gerrymandered in the nation,
is a Rorschach test in the most literal sense. The Washington Post called it a “crazy quilt.” A local politician compared it to “blood spatter from a crime scene.” A federal judge said it reminded him of a “broken-winged pterodactyl, lying prostrate across the center of the state.” DCist suggested we ditch metaphor altogether and change the word “gerrymander” to “Marymander.”

jaysoffroad
401
Points
jaysoffroad 02/24/13 - 10:53 am
4
1

Sleepr, TJ and I made a song

Sleepr, TJ and I made a song for you liberal Nutz!

http://youtu.be/GXiazmfLrNg

Sleepr2
326
Points
Sleepr2 02/24/13 - 09:24 pm
4
1

LOL! poor lefty Nutz..

so out of line and purposely offensive she gets another reminder that she can not rant with liberal slurs with out a moderator.

I'd bet she cheers the lib moderators on DU underground when they ban anyone to the right of Marx.

freedomfarmer
15
Points
freedomfarmer 02/27/13 - 09:31 am
2
0

2nd amendment

I'm sickened at the lack of constitutional knowledge by this country's citizens.. If you don't remember any of T. Jefferson writings he was very clear.

The 2nd amendment is necessary so that the US citizens have enough arms to defend themselves from the tyranny of the Federal Gov't and protection of their private property....................................

It has nothing to do with hunting.......

freedomfarmer
15
Points
freedomfarmer 02/27/13 - 09:36 am
2
0

GOP strategy

GOP should just adhere to the constitution like all politicians and keep their dang hands out of China and remove the feds printing machine...
GOP--Borrow less and tax less, spend more
DEM--Borrow and tax more, spend even more
RESULT--Failure by both parties to confront issues
Why would anyone compromise with unconstitutional ideology?
The welfare state is not in the constitution.
The GOP is so dang liberal I can't even vote for them anymore on a regular basis..

tjohnson
252
Points
tjohnson 02/27/13 - 09:50 am
2
0

GOP Strategy

Freedomfarmer, I couldn't agree with you more. At this point, neither side is fit to lead.

However, I would caution you on your vote. By your own account, the GOP is the lesser of the two evils. Remember, if it wasn't for Ross Perot, Clinton would never became President. If it wasn't for Horner, we would not be stuck with Dayton.

rightwingnuts
377
Points
rightwingnuts 02/27/13 - 10:27 am
1
1

At least [filtered word], Freedomfarmer and I agree on one thing

As we have seen clearly from the bumper crop of rightwing-nut posters on this site, like [filtered word], and now with the emergent "Freedomfarmer", you extremists are way off the charts. As you said, you are even more radical fringe than today's radicalized GOP. Now that's extreme!

And I wholeheartedly agree with your assessment on how anti-government you are with your goal to make the US more like Somalia. Freedumb!

Sleepr2
326
Points
Sleepr2 02/27/13 - 10:37 am
1
0

Still waitin Nutz?

Who do you work for?

Or are you going to fall, back on your typical lib fall back position?

"do as I say not as I do"

And really? Nutz is calling some else an extremist? LOL! I'd think your masters at Moveon would have somthing more original than repeating the same lies over and over.

tjohnson
252
Points
tjohnson 02/27/13 - 10:39 am
2
0

Again Nutty adds nothing.

Nutty, do you ever have anything to move the dialogue along?

jaysoffroad
401
Points
jaysoffroad 02/27/13 - 10:46 am
2
0

Once upon a time Nutz, Once

Once upon a time Nutz, Once upon a time!

freedomfarmer
15
Points
freedomfarmer 02/27/13 - 12:23 pm
2
0

I am perfectly fine with be

I am perfectly fine with be called an extremist because I adhere to the constitution and foundations of our formerly great nation...
Call me extreme if I think 17trillion in unsecured debt is Prudent.
Call me extreme is I think that sending hundreds of thousands of warriors abroad to fight thugs and bring democracy is ignorance.
Call me extreme if I think forcing people to buy health insurance is a loss of freedom..
Call me extreme if corporations have bought the GOP and DEM parties.
Call me extreme if paying rich farmers corporate welfare is imprudent..
Call me extreme if I say Gov't health insurance for all the poor promotes bad personal health in the majority of cases and makes health care more expensive.
Call me extreme if i think giving more money to food stamps when the Gov't says our poor are dying from malnutrition caused obesity after only subsidizing farmers who produce diabetes causing corn syrup and disgusting antibiotic ridden feeed lot beef owned companies owned by warren buffet is also stupid
------call me extreme if I think balancing the federal gov't checkbook is prudent
Freedoms can't be granted by Gov'ts, they can only be taken away.

Call me extreme for believing in the constitution...
Read G. Washingtions farewell address, Call it extreme.
"do not entangle yourselves with the affairs of Europe" We wouldn't be in worthless and expensive wars if we listened to G. Washington

freedomfarmer
15
Points
freedomfarmer 02/27/13 - 12:23 pm
2
0

I am perfectly fine with be

I am perfectly fine with be called an extremist because I adhere to the constitution and foundations of our formerly great nation...
Call me extreme if I think 17trillion in unsecured debt is Prudent.
Call me extreme is I think that sending hundreds of thousands of warriors abroad to fight thugs and bring democracy is ignorance.
Call me extreme if I think forcing people to buy health insurance is a loss of freedom..
Call me extreme if corporations have bought the GOP and DEM parties.
Call me extreme if paying rich farmers corporate welfare is imprudent..
Call me extreme if I say Gov't health insurance for all the poor promotes bad personal health in the majority of cases and makes health care more expensive.
Call me extreme if i think giving more money to food stamps when the Gov't says our poor are dying from malnutrition caused obesity after only subsidizing farmers who produce diabetes causing corn syrup and disgusting antibiotic ridden feeed lot beef owned companies owned by warren buffet is also stupid
------call me extreme if I think balancing the federal gov't checkbook is prudent
Freedoms can't be granted by Gov'ts, they can only be taken away.

Call me extreme for believing in the constitution...
Read G. Washingtions farewell address, Call it extreme.
"do not entangle yourselves with the affairs of Europe" We wouldn't be in worthless and expensive wars if we listened to G. Washington

freedomfarmer
15
Points
freedomfarmer 02/27/13 - 12:27 pm
2
0

i think we all should sit

i think we all should sit back and work together to balance our checkbooks before we start fights with our community members..
Remember how Cortez with 500 men conquered Mexico..

Divide and conquer---
If you divide the enemy like cortez you let the enemy do all the fighting and you walk in and take over while everyone is civil warring.\\

Call Thomas Jefferson extreme if he said the 2nd amendment more about preventing tyrannical control from central authorites....... go right ahead

freedomfarmer
15
Points
freedomfarmer 02/27/13 - 12:27 pm
2
0

i think we all should sit

i think we all should sit back and work together to balance our checkbooks before we start fights with our community members..
Remember how Cortez with 500 men conquered Mexico..

Divide and conquer---
If you divide the enemy like cortez you let the enemy do all the fighting and you walk in and take over while everyone is civil warring.\\

Call Thomas Jefferson extreme if he said the 2nd amendment more about preventing tyrannical control from central authorites....... go right ahead

jaysoffroad
401
Points
jaysoffroad 02/27/13 - 12:46 pm
3
0

I like you FreedomFarmer! The

I like you FreedomFarmer!

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

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