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From the Left Hand Corner: Responses

Posted: February 19, 2013 - 5:31pm

First I’d like to respond to last week’s column of my Abler conservative cohort on the subject of meetings. On it, we can agree. Like Pete, I’ve attended an awful lot of meetings over a lifetime, and a lot of them have been boring and unproductive.

I think I started as a 4-H member at age 7, and ever since have attended, and in many cases chaired, political and governmental meetings, neighborhood meetings, church meetings, civic meetings, professional meetings, work meetings and more that I’ve missed or conveniently forgotten.

As with Pete, the somewhat captive and repetitive work meetings leave the most negative memories.

However, it is great to be in a society that freely overwhelms us with a vast choice of meetings to schedule, attend and participate in without stealth and fear.

Good meetings are more than a sharing of information. A major purpose is for exchange of ideas and learning additional facts in formulating decisions. A collection of ideas and opinions is, in almost all cases, better than any single one.

One who chairs meetings should always keep in mind that the meeting belongs to the participants, not the chair or officers. That is why there is a meeting, in order to gain collective consideration and action. I think Pete confirms the adage that, meeting decisions belong to those who show up. If you can’t get off the bar stool or out of the easy chair to attend, don’t complain about the results of meetings you could have attended in your area, any more than you should complain about election results if you didn’t take the time and effort to vote.

I also share Pete’s chagrin that some elections are subject to decision based on votes of “low information voters.” Although probably true, it is still disconcerting.

One can question whether low information voting is better than not voting at all, but to the extent it exists it is subject to exploiting. At the local level at least, meeting attendance and participation will alleviate its existence.

In other response, I’m usually spared the negative comments on columns since I don’t know how to blog, or tweet or twitter, but I do read the paper.

Four weeks ago I read an article in the Minneapolis Tribune that seemed bothersome and caused me to write about guns. I acknowledged that I wasn’t arguing or adding much to the merits of the issue(s) but was concerned about how we as a society are dealing with the serious questions at hand.

I concluded that, as a lifelong “gunner,” I personally can get along fine without a fully automatic high capacity assault rifle. I don’t have an exact limiting shell number in mind, but find the high capacity magazine the most worrisome aspect. I don’t know what was banned in the 1930s and don’t know exactly what was banned following the Reagan years, nor what was unbanned in the 1990s. I stated “fully automatic” to distinguish from the “semi-automatics” we use in deer and duck hunting, a distinction some “anti-gunners” fail to make in their blanketing prohibiting arguments.

The stuff on NRA rating was taken right out of the Minneapolis newspaper article, most of it verbatim. It was reported that the NRA ranked our 10 federal elected officials, every one of them, either A or F. They gave no explanation or qualifying comments. They gave no grade to any of the 10 Senators and Congresspeople of anything between A and F. I don’t know what rating process NRA has, uses, nor how they work, whatever they use. I commented on what they did.

How does that convert to the Week One criticism of Mr. Bertram (at least he was quite civil) and his assumption about “the weapon he describes?" I didn’t describe any particular or specific “weapon”, at least none that I know of. I simply stated disinterest in having anything fully automatic, anything high capacity, anything that was seemingly more designed for hurting people than sporting usage.

I don’t know what a Huldra AR 15 is or where that fits in. It is appalling to even think, as Mr. Bertram suggests, that the shotgun that I use “will kill more students in a classroom” than some gun I’m supposedly “demonizing”. No, it won’t!

As noted above, the only reason I used the term "fully automatic" was to avoid lumping shotguns and deer rifles in with broadbrush prohibiting statements that I’ve heard some anti-gun people make.

Week Two was more derogatory. Mr. Buell accuses me of “an outright ... and deliberate lie” in saying I can get along without a fully automatic high-capacity assault rifle. That is my belief and preference. I made it clear earlier in the column that I want to keep the dozen or so guns and rifles that I now have.

I find it a bit ironic that for quite a number of years, gun ownership and usage was at issue, and quite hotly contested, without the Second Amendment even referenced in argument on the subject. Mr. Buell apparently has a great deal more factual knowledge and insight than the rest of us about express statements of the founders writing amendments and quotes of Washington, Mason and Jefferson. If so, verify and enlighten us.

We can have differing opinion, and different interpretation, but accusation of “outright ... and deliberate lie” when I was only expressing my personal reflection is rather hurtful.

Then Week Three, Mr. Lund attacks for denigrating the NRA “elected official system”. I didn’t know they had one, nor if they followed it, if one existed. What I do know is what I read in the Minneapolis Tribune, and I believe that I referenced from it accurately, and in most aspects verbatim. (I didn’t keep a copy to check again.)

I wasn’t denigrating any unknown to me system as such. I was criticizing the NRA for what they did. All 10 of our federal elected officials were ranked either A or F, nothing in between, no one B, no one C, no one D, and no pluses or minuses as now referenced by Mr. Lund as possible.

That is what they did. That exemplifies the extreme approach of NRA, in this particular instance, which I view as part of pattern to hold to extremes which I believe impedes constructive resolution of the problems we face.

I don’t expect any others’ agreement, but I don’t think my observation, reference to the Trib article and criticism of the NRA justify Mr. Lund’s accusation of “lie” a half dozen times.

The complex issue cries out for a more reasonable approach.

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jaysoffroad
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jaysoffroad 02/21/13 - 01:26 pm
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"reputable person as Don

"reputable person as Don Bye"

Now THATS some good humor!

jaysoffroad
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jaysoffroad 02/21/13 - 01:46 pm
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Milwaukee County Sheriff

Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke is calling proposals to seize firearms unconstitutional and warns of dire consequences if such plans are enacted.

“This is about attacking the Second Amendment, it’s about going after the wrong crowd,” the sheriff told listeners to the Alex Jones show.

Clarke blasted gun-control proposals triggered by presidential executive orders and said he would not enforce unconstitutional laws.

“First of all, to me that would be an act of tyranny,” he told Jones. ‘So the people in Milwaukee County do not have to worry about me enforcing some sort of order that goes out and collects everybody’s handgun, or rifles, or any kind of firearm and makes them turn them in.

“The reason is I don’t want to get shot, because I believe that if somebody tried to enforce something of that magnitude, you would see the second coming of an American Revolution, the likes of which would make the first revolution pale by comparison.”

Now there's one common sense LEO!

jaysoffroad
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jaysoffroad 02/21/13 - 02:33 pm
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American Spirit Arms notched

American Spirit Arms notched even more electronic “thumbs up” after joining the movement.

Count us in! American Spirit Arms will stand beside our fellow firearm manufacturers in the fight against new firearm legislation that imposes gun control on law-abiding citizens. As a firearm manufacturer, we are participating in the stance of only selling the firearms that law-abiding citizens can purchase in that state.

jaysoffroad
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jaysoffroad 02/21/13 - 02:40 pm
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Spike’s Tactical from Florida

Spike’s Tactical from Florida stated their policy on Facebook too:

In light of the recent and numerous anti-gun and anti-2nd Amendment laws pending across the Nation, Spike’s Tactical will be joining other manufacturers and distributors and limiting the business we do in states that have limited the right to keep and bear arms for their citizens.

Idaho’s Quality Arms, an AR-15 specialist, has added a page to their company’s website titled “Liberty & Justice for All.” On that page is a lengthy statement on the latest shootings and how the company feels some politicians are manipulating them for their own purposes. The page closes with this statement from Qaulity Arms:

Quality Arms Idaho

Will not supply any firearm or product, manufactured by us, or any other company nor will we warranty, repair, alter, or modify any firearm owned by any State, County or Municipality who infringes on the right of its citizens to bear arms under the 2ndamendment.

jaysoffroad
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jaysoffroad 02/21/13 - 02:59 pm
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rightwingnuts
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rightwingnuts 02/21/13 - 06:28 pm
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Just a guess, but I think it could be Lund's Bait Shop

At least dealing with worms and minnows may be something that a person of his intellectual and civility level may be able to handle.

tjohnson
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tjohnson 02/21/13 - 06:34 pm
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Nutty is Wrong

Nutty would be wrong as usual. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, but not Nutty.

Sleepr2
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Sleepr2 02/21/13 - 07:23 pm
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Now thats funny!!!

Nutz is implying that she's an intellectual and civil!

Ds.Gusted
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Ds.Gusted 02/21/13 - 08:11 pm
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I flagged Jackpines comments...

...and I hope he gets the boot again.

"This poster is unhappy that a private citizen is critizing an editorial contributor and is actively seeking information to defame and/or damage this person's reputation and ability to engage in business.

Mr. Bye recieves much critism because of his political leanings but does so as an acknowledged and regular contributor of content with a weekly column. In doing so, he opens himself up to argument and debate and he's probably very content to engage as written above.

Jackpineoncemore has called out the person that is disputing what one of your writers is saying and infringing on the American quality of open debate. Please remove this person from the conversation and block his IP address.

Ds.Gusted
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Ds.Gusted 02/21/13 - 08:11 pm
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I flagged Jackpines comments...

...and I hope he gets the boot again.

"This poster is unhappy that a private citizen is critizing an editorial contributor and is actively seeking information to defame and/or damage this person's reputation and ability to engage in business.

Mr. Bye recieves much critism because of his political leanings but does so as an acknowledged and regular contributor of content with a weekly column. In doing so, he opens himself up to argument and debate and he's probably very content to engage as written above.

Jackpineoncemore has called out the person that is disputing what one of your writers is saying and infringing on the American quality of open debate. Please remove this person from the conversation and block his IP address.

tjohnson
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tjohnson 02/21/13 - 10:06 pm
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Don't take Nutty serious.

Ds. Gusted, do not take Nutty seriously. No one does. I know nine year olds who have a much superior intellect than Nutty.

No one dumbs down discourse lower than Nutty. In Nutty's case, he is too dumb to be embarrassed.

Ds.Gusted
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Ds.Gusted 02/21/13 - 10:30 pm
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idiot? Really??

Mr. Lund fixed his name to his opinion just like Mr. Bye did. RWNC posts hateful retoric anonymously with the tenanicity of a timeshare salesman. Classic.

rightwingnuts
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rightwingnuts 02/22/13 - 09:31 am
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Ds.Gusting's double standard

He expresses his hollow outrage! about the backlash from Tom Lund's latest unhinged and irresponsible letter ranting that Don Bye is a "liar" for simply pointing out how extreme the NRA has become, yet he tries to deny Jackpine's right of speech, simply because he said he won't do business with someone as irrational and belligerent as Lund. I wouldn't either, if I knew what his business is.

Apparently it hasn't occured to Ds.Gusting that all of should have free speech. It must be a novel concept to him.

Sleepr2
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Sleepr2 02/22/13 - 10:27 am
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Poor Nutz , so oblivious

you of all people should shut up, when it comes to double standards liberals win the prize.

Kerry, daschole, Franken,Dayton, Jefferson, Nagon, Geithner, Kenndy etc.

All big supporters of taxes and ALL are tax dodgers.

BTW you hypocrite, before you rant on about how taxing the rich is the answer to all the countrys problems watch this Non lib vid.

http://youtu.be/661pi6K-8WQ

jaysoffroad
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jaysoffroad 02/22/13 - 10:36 am
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Poor Timid little Nutz, she's

Poor Timid little Nutz, she's really outnumbered! LMAO

tjohnson
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tjohnson 02/22/13 - 10:47 am
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Don't forget Jesse Jackson Jr.

Sleepr, I would like to add Jesse Jackson Jr to that list of tax cheats.

rightwingnuts
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rightwingnuts 02/22/13 - 11:20 am
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Jaysoffhosrocker thinks he is in the majority. Now that's funny

In fact, he is the radical fringe segment of the record low numbers (22%!!) who still admit they are Republicans. And he thinks he is in the majority. Clueless idiot.

jaysoffroad
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jaysoffroad 02/22/13 - 11:26 am
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I'm way more "Right" than the

I'm way more "Right" than the elected Republicans and you for that matter!

Nutty, cant you do just ONE post without the vile remarks?

Sleepr2
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Sleepr2 02/22/13 - 12:05 pm
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Poor Nutz , she thinks her drivel is "mainstream".

the reality is that Nutz is a far left whiner that is obsessed with stealing other peoples money and is completely oblivious to the extreme positions she and her masters at Moveon take.

rightwingnuts
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rightwingnuts 02/22/13 - 05:24 pm
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Wake up, Sleepy, and give us an example of my "far left" posts

You can't, whackjob, but every post of yours is either A) far right, B) more extreme than far right, C) insane, or D) incoherent.

Ds.Gusted
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Ds.Gusted 02/22/13 - 05:31 pm
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tactics of small minded people

when they can't make the argument properly or even reform their delivery to reinforce their position, they resort to shouting and name calling. This has been the MO for RWN, the Nomos and a few others. I enjoy debate based on fact or even plausible theory, but that's not at all possible with some of these people.

rightwingnuts
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rightwingnuts 02/22/13 - 05:32 pm
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Yes. Jaysoffhisrocker is way more far-Right than almost anyone

Jaysoffhisrocker finally said something that is correct. He finally speaks the truth. He sez: "I'm way more "Right" than the elected Republicans and you for that matter!" Duh!

He may even be more far-right than Genghis Kahn, based on his unhinged posts.

tjohnson
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tjohnson 02/22/13 - 05:37 pm
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Nutty is pointless.

Nutty's post are pointless and embecilic. I believe she is far left because, she resorts to name calling at anyone who is to the right of Marx and Mao.

Sleepr2
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Sleepr2 02/22/13 - 10:04 pm
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Give you an example of your far left posts LOL!

How about your complete cowardice about any post that shows the hypocrisy and criminal actions of your chosen heros like, Rangel, Franken, Kenndy, Wellstone, Jefferson, Pelosi, Kerry, Jackson, Algore , ets.

Funny how you seem to run away from commenting on the criminals of the left.

You pathetic Movon paid hack.

rightwingnuts
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rightwingnuts 02/22/13 - 10:43 pm
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Wake up, Sleepy, and give us an example of my "far left" posts

You can't and you obviously haven't. Maybe you should sleep on it, Sleepy, so you can think more clearly, and try again. LOL

rightwingnuts
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rightwingnuts 02/22/13 - 10:57 pm
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Ds.Gusting's disgusting hypocrisy

Has it occured to you how hypocritical you are to be on a mission to get Jackpine and me censored from this site, while you blissfully approve of the rightwing extremists' ugly rants posted here, and Tom Lund's belligerent, over the top letter? I think it's disgusting, Ds.Gusting.

Sleepr2
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Sleepr2 02/22/13 - 11:17 pm
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LOL! Poor Moveon shill

Too stupid to see her own self serving hypocrisy and far left agenda driven drivel.

Poor nutz , I almost feel sorry for the self absorbed parasite.

rightwingnuts
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rightwingnuts 02/22/13 - 11:41 pm
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Back to your room, Sleepy, or we're calling hospital security!

Your computer hours are over, and it's time for the ward nurse to give you your anti-anxiety meds. Night-night, Sleepy.

jaysoffroad
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jaysoffroad 02/23/13 - 08:12 am
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Another intelligent post by

Another intelligent post by the Commie!

jaysoffroad
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jaysoffroad 02/23/13 - 09:19 am
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"I urge all readers to stop

"I urge all readers to stop doing business with Mr. Lund....he doesn't deserve it."

OH, OK, if you say so!
Yer an imbecile Jacker!

His Buisness will probably grow like mine did.

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